In this Episode of the Secure Your Retirement Podcast, Radon and Murs discuss the emotional side of the transition into retirement with clients Vid and Nupam Desai. Vid recently took early retirement after six years as chief information officer at the FDA, capping a 40-year career in pharmaceuticals, clinical research and medical devices. Nupam is still leading her team at Lenovo and planning her own retirement over the next couple of years. The four of them talk about learning to live together again, getting comfortable spending money you spent decades saving, and the travel, hobbies and giving back the Desais are planning for the years ahead.

Listen in to learn about why even the most capable do-it-yourself planners reach a point where handing off taxes and investments brings relief, how seeing a plan on paper helps the logical and emotional sides of retirement catch up with each other, and what couples can expect when one spouse retires first.

In this episode, find out:

• Why Vid calls holding on to his own finances and taxes for too long one of his biggest retirement lessons.
• How seeing their plan on paper helped the Desais start feeling confident about spending.
• What changes at home when one spouse retires and the other keeps working.
• Why Nupam is staying at Lenovo long enough to set her team up to succeed.
• How the Desais picture their first five to ten years of retirement, from six-week stays abroad to community service and the Peace Corps.

Tweetable Quotes:

“While we are financial advisors in this wealth management space, a lot of times what we are is a thought partner.”

Murs Tariq

“A lot of times when people come to us, it’s emotional. It’s an emotional hurdle.”

Radon Stancil

Resources:

If you are in or nearing retirement and you want to gain clarity on what questions you should be asking, learn what the biggest retirement myths are, and identify what you can do to achieve peace of mind for your retirement, get started today by requesting our complimentary video course, Four Steps to Secure Your Retirement!

To access the course, simply visit POMWealth.net/podcast.

Here’s the full transcript:

All right. Well, thank you so much, Vid and Nupam, for coming in and talking to us. You know, Murs and I were talking about wanting to have a series on the podcast where we talk about living our best retirement. The privilege that we have is we get to see a lot of clients that were working with the goal of retirement, and then finally they get to retirement. Maybe a few of our clients are still working, still working on that path to retirement. But a lot of times when people come to us, they’re like, it’s emotional. It’s an emotional hurdle. So I thought, man, if we could just interview a few of our clients that have made those decisions, that are making those decisions, it would help other people who maybe are going through this whole scenario as well. So I appreciate very much. We both appreciate you coming in and chatting with us. So just to give everybody a little bit of background, and if each of you can take a part of this, if you’d like, could you just tell us a little bit about you, where you’re from, kind of maybe where you live now, and just give us a little bit of history? 

Sure. So we’ve been in the Raleigh-Cary area for, gosh, coming up to 40 years, 40-plus years. So I originally did my education in the UK, moved out here, and Raleigh and North Carolina has been the constant for us. So in terms of what I’ve been doing over the last 40 years or so, I started my early career with the pharmaceutical industry. I spent about 10 years in the pharma industry, Glaxo, and stuff like that. That was local. And then from there, I transitioned over to the clinical research organization, IQVIA, or Glaxo South, as we used to call it, because a lot of people from Glaxo moved on to Quintiles, which is now IQVIA. And then from IQVIA, I transitioned for about 10 years into medical devices, private equity-funded medical device companies. And coming out of that decade, I was probably retired. That’s when the first thoughts of retirement came up. She wasn’t ready to have me retired. So towards one of the companies that we had carved out, I was seriously contemplating retirement. And then she called up a good friend of ours and basically said, you got to put this guy to work. And she happened to be at that point in time the principal deputy commissioner of the FDA. And she takes me out for a coffee, and the next thing I know, I’ve signed up for at least a year at the Food and Drug Administration. And I went there for a year to help her look for a CIO, and I ended up staying there for six years and became their chief information officer. So that was my last six years. And after coming out of that, with all the turmoil that was happening last year with the administration change and DOGE and all that stuff, I had the opportunity at that point in time to take early retirement. I was eligible for federal retirement, and that’s when I finally pulled the trigger in last August. I officially retired. 

Oh, there you go. Congratulations. The FDA, that’s a really, I’m sure we could do a whole other podcast to understand what’s going on over there. But Nupam, tell us a little bit about your background, your history. 

Yes. So I’ve been here ever since ’88. I went to the States and, uh, found this man, you know, got to know him and got married in ’91. We have three kids. They’re all grown adults now. So, yeah, and I work for Lenovo for, I mean, from IBM to transition to Lenovo. And I’m still working and thinking about how can I move forward into, in the next couple of years, to retirement. 

Yeah. I’m still trying to convince her to retire. It’s not quite ready yet, but we’re working on it. 

Yeah. And we’ll talk about that, because there is a dynamic of you still working and you retired. But you mentioned when we were talking earlier about kind of feeling the need to feel busy. So we’ll get to that. But I know you guys were just talking about this wedding and everything that you guys have just gone through over the last few months, putting that together, now that’s behind you. Tell us a little bit about the family and the wedding and how everything went there, just so listeners can kind of hear what that even looks like. 

Oh, Indian weddings, right? I mean, pretty big, too many events in such a short period of time. We did have quite a few people coming in, so the logistically was a lot to manage, but we made it work, you know. Got to see all our families, um, you know, spend a lot of good time with them, and, uh, it was a lot of work, though. Yeah, it was a lot of work between having a full-time tradition at work and then managing this whole, um, wedding. We had a wedding planner. She was the main wedding planner, but we, in addition to our son who got married, we have twin daughters, Ria and Ria. So they’re, one of them is in D.C., one of them is in Raleigh. And our son right now, he’s in Newport News, just got married. His wife is about to, well, is planning to become a dermatologist. So she’s in her first year of residency at Newport News, but they will be coming down, and she’s going to be doing the rest of her residency at Duke. So we’re looking forward to son and daughter-in-law moving closer to us as well. 

Excellent. So let’s talk a little bit about, you know, kind of the emotional thought processes. You know, I always, when I’m talking to people, what I find that’s interesting is, even for people that have been really good savers and have accumulated some money for retirement, there’s still that emotional part of saying, am I ready? I mean, Nupam, you’re kind of, I mean, it could be that you’re saying, I’m going to stay home because I love what I’m doing. But I guess as you’re thinking about this idea of you now retiring, and you said, I think I’m getting close, what are some of the things that you’re thinking through on that? Is it because you just love your job, or is it because I don’t know what it’s going to be like to retire? Like, what’s the emotion that you’re going through? 

Just don’t want to sit home and do nothing, right? I would want to find the hobbies that I want to do. And on the other flip side of it, I have built a great team at Lenovo. What can happen to them? So in that aspect, I want to make sure that I guide my team to be successful where they can take over when I’m not there. So that’s my biggest challenge right now, you know, and I want to transition, make sure that I transition a lot of the stuff that I do today to the people that can able to do it. I just don’t want the team to just, you know, move away from what they do. 

Right. Yeah. I mean, you see all too often, like what my wife tells me stories about in her company, that the, some leadership starts to leave, and they just feel like the team is kind of grasping at straws to pull it all back together. So I think that’s admirable of you to stay in it to make sure that that transition is nice and smooth for everyone else. 

The dynamic is kind of interesting, because, you know, I think that’s something that both of us are very passionate about. And that actually was one of the reasons I choose to leave the FDA, is part of the reason I left is, you know, with all the DOGE changes that were happening, I was losing a big part of my team against my desire. And that was my motivation to say, you know what, now it’s a good time to finally pull that trigger. 

Yeah. And so you left the FDA about a full year ago now. And so Nupam’s still working. And so, you know, what we see often, especially in the pharma world, you guys have such tremendous contacts to where you can continue working as long as you want if you’ve done a good job of building that Rolodex, per se. And so what are you doing now? And why are you doing it when you really have to? 

Like Nupam, it’s difficult for me to just go from 100 to zero. And so I started my consulting company as a way of just keeping engaged. I have a lot of passion for healthcare. You know, one of the things I often say, you know, in America, we spend the most per capita on healthcare for the worst outcomes. You know, one of the commissioners of the FDA used to say, you know, we spend more on healthcare for the privilege of dying young, which is a sad statistic. I have a lot of desire to do my bit to help change that. And so part of what I do through the consulting activities is how do we change that dynamic a little bit? How do we optimize healthcare? So I’ve been doing a lot of consulting on that side. We’ve got lots of changes in science, lots of changes in AI and all that stuff. So using some of my knowledge that I’ve gained over the last 40 years to see what little difference we can make. 

Yeah. So what is the dynamic like right now with you retired and Nupam not retired? Like, Nupam, how’s that affecting you at all? Is that kind of like, hey, you need to go do something? 

I do ask him to pick up a lot of stuff. Do this, do that, you know what I mean? Help me out and run my errands, you know what I mean, if you can. So that he does help out. But I do not like when I’m leaving work, he’s still in the bed. 

You have an interesting dynamic there, because in the last two and a half decades, whilst Nupam has remained in North Carolina, my job has taken me to a number of different areas. So I’ve sort of been like that Monday-to-Thursday dad. I’d fly out on a Monday. I’d come back on a Thursday. So I, you know, she’s not, or the family has not been used to having me at home. So all of a sudden, I am now more at home. Actually, it started around the COVID time, and that was a bit of an adjustment for all of us. And so, like she says, I have now become more of an expert at running errands than I ever had to over the last two and a half decades. 

Yeah, you know, it’s interesting you say that, because I was playing golf with a client of ours, and he was telling me pretty much the exact same story. Completely different deal, but was on the road a lot. She worked here locally. And when he retired, he said that they kind of had to learn how to live together again, because they’ve gotten so used to their way of doing it for such a long time. So I think that’s really interesting. And you’ll probably still continue to figure out, especially when you do retire. Now you’re both together quite often. But I think it’s all really fun and exciting. Have you guys given any thought to when, Nupam, when you do retire? Let’s say that’s in the next couple of years. You know, what’s gonna go through your mind, I guess, emotionally, as far as what do we do next? You mentioned hobbies, you know, and I know you guys like to travel, so. But you also have the kids that are kind of up and coming in the sense of their own careers. So what’s going through your mind there when that transition happens for you? 

I know the kids will be moving here initially, so just support them whichever way we can, you know, not on them, but just if they need help, we are there, you know. And that’s always been my philosophy from day one as mom, that kids always comes first, you know. So I want to support them, travel a lot, you know, while we still have, we can able to move ourselves, as you know, um, and hopefully I can find some more better hobbies, you know. He wants to learn how to cook, so maybe that’s something that I can kind of get him there, so I’ll get a meal every now and then without me being in the kitchen. 

Yeah, no, I think the other thing we’ve talked a lot about is, um, you know, we like travel. And one of the ideas that we’ve been floating, and this is the one that I’ve already started researching and I can’t wait for her to retire, is, you know, just go to a region and spend like six or eight weeks there. Like if you want to see Europe, then establish a little bit of a base, explore around there, Eastern Europe, Asia, and stuff like that. So I think I envision that that’s what I want to do the most of, is at least twice a year, go to a particular part of the world and just spend a good amount of, you know, six or eight weeks to explore that area. 

Yeah. I mean, you know, I think that would be so cool as well, just to be able to not to have to think about, oh, I need to get back and go to work, or I got to go do that. Just, yeah, just give you that opportunity. So maybe if you don’t, that’s OK. But if you were talking to somebody else today, I’m sure you have conversations with other people that are kind of like where you are and thinking about retirement. Do you have anything that you kind of have learned through the process that you would say to somebody, like, hey, make sure you think about this, or to do that before you make that leap, or as you’re planning for it, or anything like that? 

The advice I give anybody when this topic comes up is one of the mistakes I made, or one of the things I’ve learned, is for too long I held on to managing things myself. So I’d manage my own finances. I’d manage my own taxes. For the longest time, I did my own taxes and stuff. And one of the things I learned was you cannot keep up with all the changes, the nuances in these fields. There are a lot of things. And at some point in time, you’ve got to give to the professionals. I’ll give you an example of the taxation stuff. For years, I’d buy my own TurboTax and do my own taxes and stuff like that. And I’d have this quarterly anxiety. So from January till April, I would be stressed about that. And then, you know, I finally got to the point where I got an accountant, and all I did was just hand them the paperwork. And that was such a relief. And I think managing your finances is similar. You might be able to make the same types of returns, but not having to worry about that, I mean, so I think one of the things I love about your organization’s name, Peace of Mind, it’s that peace of mind. You don’t want to stress over things. And these fields are a lot more complex than most people think they are. And I think having that expertise, or finally just letting go and having somebody manage that, is a good thing. So my advice to people is, you think you know it all and you think Google knows it all, but that’s not the case. Everybody’s situation has a lot of nuances and differences, and your situation is unique. You’ve got to have a professional helping you with this. And people need more help than they think they do. 

Yeah, and I would second that all day. You know, Radon and I have been doing this for a long time. And to stay on top of it, what we realize is it’s bigger than us now. And you need a lot of people that are staying on top of it. So it takes us a whole team to be able to manage the practice that we manage and stay on top of the tax law changes that happened last year, and then all the different rules around IRAs, and then all the new cool strategies that are constantly coming out that we want to be at the forefront of. It takes quite a bit. 

And even health care plans, you know, other things, you know, which plan to choose and stuff like that. You know, there’s a lot of complexities and nuances there. And I think people don’t appreciate that. And having somebody that has that background, you know, has a deep background, and being able to just have a conversation, kind of like a thinking buddy, if nothing else, I think is very helpful. 

Yeah. So we see this all the time. You know, when you’re working, earning and saving, kind of checking all the boxes, putting into the 401(k), paying the bills, not accumulating too much debt and all that, you know, everything works pretty well. And you get in these certain habits. I mean, most people that get to where they are, where they’re going to have a comfortable retirement, they make a lot of the right decisions, and they build very strong habits around spending and budgeting and things like that. And so you get to this transition where you guys are almost there, right? There’s still income coming in on both sides of the table, but eventually that’s going to stop, in a way, from earned income. And so kind of talk me through how you got to a place of feeling comfortable with this idea of starting to use money, right? It’s not the paychecks. It’s not the salary that’s going to come in. And you want to do some pretty cool travel and vacations and stuff. How did you get comfortable with the idea of actually using that money? Because that’s a hard thing for people to transition into. 

I think that’s where the second half of the conversations we had with folks like you really helped, is putting that plan together, right? So I think, you know, generally we had the idea that we were doing okay, um, in terms of income and stuff, but we hadn’t really, you don’t, I always had the anxiety of not knowing for certain, right? So you hear, or, you know, occasionally on the internet you’ll see, or you’ll get an email that basically says you need X amount of money to retire, you know, and either you get reassured by that or you get scared by that, right? So you just don’t know. And I think the putting together a really thorough plan, uh, and then having the confidence of somebody reviewing that plan, looking at your income and what you had saved, and being able to say, yeah, I think your plan can work, I think there’s a lot of reassurance there. And I don’t think we ever put it together and had that degree of confidence where, you know, there’s a plan, the math works. I think that helped. So I think that’s, I mean, we had an inkling, right? But seeing it actually put on paper and working through it gives you a degree of freedom to actually do the things you want to do. And I think we’re still getting used to it, to be honest. I think the logical side of me understands that. The mental side of me is still coming to terms with letting go and spending, right? So that’s a, 

That’s where I’m helping here. 

So we’re learning. But I think having the confidence, you know, once you see the paper, the logical side of it getting addressed helps the mental side come to terms with it. 

Yeah. And I would agree. You know, there’s so many times, I like the word that you use as a thought partner. While we are financial advisors in this wealth management space, a lot of times what we are is a thought partner. Can I do this? Can I do that? And what we see all the time is we kind of have to encourage our families to be spending a little bit more, because it’s hard to break those habits, right? You can’t get to where you are by being incredibly high spending and everything like that and making bad financial decisions, and breaking those habits is where some of that thought partner comes in. 

Yeah, I was just going to ask Nupam, from your cycles, you know, Vid laid things out the way he makes decisions. I’m curious, do you find that you need a different way of actually making that decision, or is it similar? I mean, the way you’re going to make a decision and making that, am I okay to start taking money, or am I okay to stop working? I know you talked about the team, but just your own emotion or your own decision-making process. 

Those are the process that I’m still going through that right now. And I think till I don’t see it myself, it’s going to be really hard for me to, like, 100% transition over to a retired. 

Yeah. Maintaining a certain standard of living is very important to Nupam. Yeah. I mean, she’s very, she’s much better at that. I, the way I’ve been raised and where I come from, I can compromise. I can rough it a little bit. She’s very good at keeping me straight on that in terms of, we don’t have to do that, we don’t, you know, we can afford to do this, right? So I think that partnership really helps. And like I said, that’s something that I know is a limitation in me that I have to overcome. Yeah. She’s much better at managing that part. 

Yeah, we do. We see a lot of our families that, you know, we’ll show them, hey, you’ve got enough money, you’ve got enough assets to be able to go and do what you want to do. And they’re like, yeah, I still don’t know if I can do it, though. And we, you know, a big part of what we’re doing, like Murs said, is we’re trying to just help you have the confidence to go out and do that. Otherwise, you know, I think people want to leave their kids something, but at the same token, it’s like, well, do I, you know, here’s enough to leave them, let me spend some money, too, you know, in that whole process. Enjoy something that you can do at this time and not worry about maybe in the future, you know what I mean? 

Right. Yeah. That transition is really a key point for people to think about and talk about, because I suspect a lot of folks struggle with that. And I know I’m still struggling with it. But again, like I said, I think there is that logical side and then there’s a mental side. And the mental side takes a little bit more longer to adjust to. 

Yeah. So let’s fast forward a bit here and say, you know, you’re fully retired, right? The kids, you, I think you’ve got one married, and there’s two more that are at some point will get married. So let’s say that’s all taken care of, because I know that was a little bit stressful to go through all that planning and everything. What we see is that, like you, in the first five to ten years of retirement for someone, when you’re truly fully retired, is kind of that sweet spot of where you want to do the things that you want to do, while, I say the phrase of, while you’re willing and able to date. Yeah, right? So what does that look like for you guys? If you could dream it up, the next five to ten years, what’s the plan? 

Well, first and foremost, travel. Yeah, because while our health is good, we do want to travel the world. So that’s something that I would want to do. And learn some new hobbies that we can be able to incorporate while we are wherever our home base is, right, instead of out of town or anything like that. So I want to do something different that I’ve never done, you know what I mean? I don’t know that just yet, you know what I mean? But I probably would want to do some community service that can help me, you know, like maybe go to the hospital, maybe spend some time with those people that somebody needs to talk to. Go to maybe senior home and, you know, talk to them, just give them our time or whatever their needs are. So that’s something. And of course, at the end of our day, help my children. That’s my priority. 

I think giving back is something that we increasingly think more about. And, you know, she talked about community service, and one of the things I’ve been sort of idly, I keep thinking about all the things I wanted to do when I was in school that I wasn’t able to do or couldn’t afford to do, doing them now. And one of the things I’ve been researching recently is the Peace Corps, for example, just going and spending some time in a place like that where, you know, use your skills and background and stuff to kind of help some communities abroad and things like that. You get to experience a new culture as well as do some good. So I’ve been sort of toying around with the idea of doing some stuff like that as well. 

Yeah. Well, you know, just so you know, I think this kind of conversation, I know you probably have this with your friends, but some people, you know, they’ll look at this and they’ll go, okay, I think I can do it, or at least I know that my concerns are not a one-off, you know. So we really do appreciate you all coming out and taking a few minutes and talking with us today. I know it’s going to be beneficial, and I know that you are going to live your best retirement. So thank you very much.