In this episode of the Secure Your Retirement Podcast, Radon Stancil and Murs Tariq sit down with Medicare specialist Shawn Southard to unpack the recent developments around Medicare Advantage brokers, broker compensation, and the impact of a federal court ruling on CMS Medicare rules. With Medicare open enrollment and aggressive Medicare marketing campaigns happening every year, understanding how brokers get paid and how it may influence the advice you receive has never been more important. 

Shawn explains how the recent court decision effects Medicare plan comparison, Medicare star ratings, and the role of brokers in guiding retirees. If you’re planning retirement or reviewing your options during Medicare open enrollment, this episode provides practical insights and unbiased Medicare advice to help you make informed choices. 

Listen in to learn about: 

How Medicare broker compensation structures may impact your coverage decisions and what questions you need to ask to protect yourself from Medicare scams. Whether you’re seeking SHIP counseling, comparing plans, or building your retirement checklist, this discussion will help you confidently navigate your Medicare options and secure your retirement. 

In this episode, find out: 

• The details behind the CMS rule, the court ruling, and what it means for Medicare Advantage beneficiaries. 
• How broker compensation can influence recommendations and why questions to ask brokers are critical. 
• Why aggressive Medicare marketing and commercials may increase — and how to stay vigilant. 
• How to leverage Medicare plan comparison tools and SHIP counseling for unbiased Medicare advice. 
• Steps you can take today to make smart, confident decisions for retiring comfortably. 

Tweetable Quotes: 

“Understanding how Medicare brokers are compensated empowers you to make better decisions and avoid being swayed by marketing tactics.” 

— Radon Stancil 

“Medicare open enrollment is your opportunity to make informed choices — but only if you ask the right questions and focus on what’s best for you, not the broker.” 

— Murs Tariq 

Resources: 

If you are in or nearing retirement and you want to gain clarity on what questions you should be asking, learn what the biggest retirement myths are, and identify what you can do to achieve peace of mind for your retirement, get started today by requesting our complimentary video course, Four Steps to Secure Your Retirement! 

To access the course, simply visit POMWealth.net/podcast. 

Here’s the full transcript:

Welcome everyone to Secure Your Retirement Uh, I always get excited when we have a 

guest on the podcast and today, um, is an extremely exciting day. 

Anytime I can get on Shawn Southard and talk about Medicare, uh, I tell you it, 

Murs and I get giddy. So, thank you very much, uh, Shawn for coming on and 

chatting with us. Oh, you’re welcome. I, I love to see you guys giddy. 

Well, you know, what I love about what we’ve been able to put together here at 

Peace of Mind and Wealth Management is this whole holistic team approach. And one of 

the team members that came on a little while back is Shawn, and we wanted to bring 

healthcare in. And what I’m about to bring up right now is one of those key 

reasons why I think it’s so nice that we’ve got Shawn on the team. So, the other 

day, Shawn, I was reading this article, it came up watch, market watch is one of 

the things that I kind of open up every morning and just kind of proves through to 

see what kind of news is out there. And this article came up and, in the article, 

it says this, Medicare Advantage Brokers could now focus more on making money and on 

commercials than on your healthcare. So now when I read that, I went, well, what 

the world is going on here with Medicare. And so, I forwarded this over to you, 

Shawn. And I said, hey, Shawn, can you kind of talk to me about this and explain 

what’s going on here? And then, uh, as I do always, I go, hey, this must be a 

big topic. So why don’t we have Shawn come actually on the podcast. And instead of 

explaining it just to me and Murs, explain it to our whole entire audience. So 

what I can gather, Shawn, in this, this article that sounds a bit inflammatory, 

you know, like beware your Medicare advantage, uh, broker might be taking advantage 

of you, potentially could be taking advantage of you. There was this around a court 

ruling and all that kind of stuff. So, I guess first and foremost, can you kind of 

tell us what this court is ruling and kind of give us a little bit of context 

here? – Sure, absolutely. So, it really boils down to the, 

what’s known as the Medicare broker pay rule. So basically, around August 18th, 

give or take. His name is Judge O ‘Connor, Reed O ‘Connor. He’s the federal judge 

that people may be familiar with in the news that’s been involved with other high 

profile healthcare rulings out there. He issued a decision about this rule, 

that CMS, which stands for the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, they put 

this in place last year in 2024. The rule was designed to specifically cap how much 

insurance companies could pay brokers and marketing organizations to sell Medicare 

Advantage plans, okay? I’d also try the CMS ruling, try to eliminate certain types 

of bonuses that existed out there, like getting paid more for broker and roll lots 

of people in a particular plan, for example, they would get bonus for that. So 

Judge O ‘Connor around August 18th said that CMS overstepped its limits here, 

and according to the judge, said that CMS can regulate how Medicare plans protect 

beneficiaries, but they can’t dictate how the payment limits are going to be set. 

So, he struck down the CMS rule. But one good thing for people to know is he did 

keep an important piece in there. He said that the requirement that marketing groups 

cannot share your personal information with each other or other organizations, they 

can’t do that without your explicit consent. So at least the privacy component is 

still there. He did not strike that down. – Well, that’s interesting. So like, ’cause 

I guess sometimes people don’t realize, but yeah, people are being paid in the 

background for services provided in the world of insurance and commissions are paid 

quite often on that side. And that’s been a constant conversation in our space, in 

the wealth management space and everything like that of commissions and how they’re 

being paid. Should they be regulated all that stuff? So why did CMS try to regulate 

broker payments? I mean, what’s the driving factor behind that? No, that’s a great 

question, Murs. It comes down to one word and it’s called influence, okay, the 

influence factor. So, if we think about it, let’s say one, there’s a Medicare 

Advantage plan out there and it pays a broker $600 commission to enroll a person, 

you know, into it. And then there’s another plan that’s out there that pays $400, 

pays that broker $400. So, you know, the question we asked there is, which plan may 

a broker likely push, you know, with a client? Is it going to be the $600 one or 

the $400 commission payment? So, because if both plans are solid, you know, the 

payment difference there could sway, could make a persuasive recommendation to one 

plan or the other. So, CMS worried that beneficiaries, Medicare beneficiaries were not 

always getting on bias advice from brokers and agents and wanted to level the 

playing field to make sure that no matter what plan that we’re being shown to folks 

that the broker wasn’t nudging them along one way or the other. So that’s really at 

the heart of it. And unless be honest, there have been some cases out there where 

aggressive marketing and lopsided comp structures, compensation structures have created 

confusion and has harm beneficiaries along the way, not in every case, but it has 

happened out there. So, some people did end up and plans that weren’t the best fit 

and because of these incentives that were there. Are those mainly from the 

commercials that you see any time after 10 p.m. going into like 3 a.m. on TV? It 

could be. Sometimes I’m not up that late, so I don’t know. 

But yeah, I mean, I think they’re all, it doesn’t matter when they aired, you know, 

it’s just the whole thing, you know, of the whole market, aggressive 

marketing tactics that are out there. So, I guess that the fact that this kind of 

went into a court scenario, you really got two sides of the story. You got CMS, 

who they’re trying to do what they do. And then I’m assuming on the other side is 

the insurance broker. And they, I’m assuming didn’t like what CMS was doing. 

I guess that’s what I get. Is that right? Yeah, no, that’s absolutely right. The 

insurance companies argued that those capping the payments and the commission payments 

would reduce competition and stifle innovation and then also limit resources, 

brokers and agencies could use to educate the Medicare beneficiary through marketing. 

So, they did have an issue and there was a trade group out there that even warned 

that without the flexibility in these commission payments that smaller plans and 

smaller agencies that are out there may struggle to survive within the market space. 

So, and that could leave Medicare beneficiaries with fewer choices and plan choices 

and turn, and when you turn for personal guidance, especially in rural areas, 

you know, they just wouldn’t have the resources there to help them navigate, you 

know, the best possible situation because a lot of those folks don’t have internet 

connection. They don’t feel good about connecting on the internet with, you know, 

Medicare.gov or anything like that. So, they were really worried that people would be 

left out in the cold there. So, they decided to sue, and they did and the judge 

overruled it. That’s interesting. So, then what does it, what does it really mean 

for, you know, our listeners? Medicare is such Medicare is such a big decision and 

you want to get it right, hopefully, on the first go -round. There are ways to make 

changes, but there’s pros and cons to everything. So, understanding Medicare, but what 

does it mean to them? Break it down for us. Yeah, no, that’s great. So, there’s 

good news, and then there’s some cautionary stuff here. So, we’ll start with the good 

news. The good news for folks is that they’re going to have access to a wide 

variety of brokers and agents who are out there that can help you navigate through 

these Medicare Advantage plans. Second thing, since the payments are not going to be 

capped or cut off, insurance companies are going to be able to continue to invest 

in outreach programs and marketing and support services for people. So that’s also 

very good. And another point is that people are probably going to notice fewer 

interruptions or disruptions in the relationships you’ve already had with your brokers, 

right? So that’s always, always good. Some cautionary things just to throw out there. 

Of course, brokers may again still be influenced, right? Consciously or not, but 

which plans may pay them more, okay? That is a reality. That doesn’t mean that 

they’re bad people or dishonest people. They’re just, it’s human, human nature, 

and it just means that you as if Medicare beneficiary need to be a little more 

aware of the incentive system that’s out there behind the scenes. And another 

cautionary thing is just that it could mean that there’s going to be more aggressive 

marketing campaigns out there. You may see more flyers than usual, more commercials 

like you were mentioning, especially those late-night commercials that people are up, 

can’t sleep or whatever, and then phone and the social media, 

right, you know, getting people to get into people’s emails and, and everything like 

that and Facebook pages and things like that. So, but don’t forget overall that your 

data privacy is still protected even though this is all happened. So, marketing 

organizations can’t sell or swap your information with each other without you 

specifically tell them that you can do that. All right, well, that’s very helpful, 

Shawn. We appreciate that. So, I always like to, when we’re talking about retirement 

planning, sometimes it’s easier for our brains to wrap around a real-life scenario. 

So could, you give us an example of a real-life example of what 

somebody might be thinking about, just so their brains ready for what this might 

mean for them? No, absolutely. So, let’s just picture two Medicare Advantage plans 

that are out there in your county where you live. Okay, there’s plan A and plan B, 

and both cost about the same for you, and both cover all your doctors and your 

prescription drugs and so forth. But one of the plans we’ll call plan A, we’ll pay 

the broker $200 more than the other to enroll you in it, right? So, let’s show that 

the broker shows you both plans and says here are your pros and here’s your cons, 

right? There you go, 

And that’s great if they do that, but let’s say they start emphasizing that Plan A, 

the one that’s going to pay a little bit more, $200 more, they’re harping on the 

positives and the advantages of that over Plan B, right? Or they just mentioned Plan 

A, they don’t mention Plan B at all. That’s where earlier we were talking about 

with the commission payment influence comes in, right, that can, how that can subtly 

creep in. And the agent may not even be aware of it themselves, but that’s where 

it’s going. But then let’s flip it over. Let’s say you live in a rule area, okay, 

and then there’s plan C that’s out there, okay, that’s available, and it’s new to 

the market for these folks. And they’re paying brokers extra to get this plan, the 

word out about this plan in the county. So, let’s say they’re paying $400 for 

enrollment more than the other, 200 more than the other one, okay. Without the 

higher payment, nobody in Nobody in these rural areas, I don’t even know about this 

plan, right? Because the brokers and agents aren’t going to really push it because 

they’re like, well, you know, it doesn’t pay that much. We’re not even going to 

talk about it with people. So, but it could actually be a great fit for a person 

that lives out in that rural area, and they would never know about it because they 

didn’t get, you know, they didn’t market it or they didn’t cover it with those 

folks. So, you know, the bottom line is it’s not clear cut. Unfortunately, higher 

commission payments can still sometimes lead to bias, but at least it’s going to 

make sure that we have more choices out there for people in the marketplace. Well, 

that’s all really good to know, Shawn. You know, Medicare, I think, is very confusing 

as it is. And I’m sure you would agree. I know Radon and I, back when we brought 

you into the company, it was because out of this drive of we can’t keep up with 

it ourselves and we need a specialist under our roof to help service our clients 

and help them make the right decisions on Medicare. But, you know, it’s an 

overwhelming topic. So how can someone, how can the consumer or listeners protect 

themselves and, you know, not get taken advantage of? How do we make them a little 

bit smarter today? Yeah, great. That’s a great thing to bring up ours. I appreciate 

it. So just a couple of things here. Overall, remember that Joe Conner’s ruling 

keeps the broker compensation system intact the way it’s always been, 

meaning that there’s going to be more support out there for people in the Medicare 

Advantage space. But once again, people need to be vigilant and need to be aware 

and need to be proactive and ask questions, you know, in their healthcare journey. 

The ruling also doesn’t change Medicare itself. Medicare benefits people’s rights as 

beneficiaries and the options remain the same so none of that has changed but it 

does this ruling does impact and doesn’t affect the environment around how 

plans are going to be marketed and how advice to you is going to be delivered so 

I wanted to just end here with about five things that people can do like right now 

so, when you’re talking to your broker or your agent just ask them. How are 

you being compensated? Just ask them straight out and a good agent or a good broker 

is not going to hesitate to answer that question for you. If they’re worth their 

salt, they’ll tell you how that happens and be very forthcoming to you. So, there’s 

something for you there. The second thing, use Medicare’s tools that are out there. 

If you have access to them and you have internet access and so forth, go on to 

Medicare.gov and you can compare everything under the sun that’s out there, 

right? As far as cost, coverage, star ratings, et cetera. You can go right there 

and use those tools. You can call SHIP, the state health insurance assistance 

program. Those are, there are some paid folks there and then there’s a lot of 

people that volunteer over there that work with Medicare beneficiaries and help, you 

know, help guide them and so forth just something about that though ship 

counselors are not licensed agents So they cannot enroll people in products, 

but they can talk to you about Medicare and so forth Fourth thing take your time 

right if a broker or a marketer or some kind is pushing you towards and making a 

quick decision Just take a pause and step back for a minute right because remember 

that America open enrollment is eight-week window October 15th to December 7th. 

So, you have plenty of time to be able to make the right decision and not feel 

pressured or feel like you have to do something very quickly. And then the 

final point I always try to make on our shows when you guys have me on is just 

keep it simple. Call me, right? Make that call. Call me here at Peace of Mind 

Wealth Management. I am uniquely, thanks to both of you, I am uniquely positioned 

here as an educational, consultative, Medicare, health care resource, okay? 

And how I’m compensated here eliminates completely any commission payment influence 

that’s out there, all right? My job is to educate and be consultative to people to 

help them make and be empowered to make the best-informed health care decision you 

can make for yourself and for your family, and I’m here to guide you every step of 

the way to make sure that happens. – Well, thank you very much, Shawn. That has 

cleared up this article for us and what’s going on. And I think, you know, what we 

get from it, that we get so much value from it is that, you know, we appreciate 

getting things understood and having that knowledge as well. And we know that you’re 

a great resource for our client. So, If you do want to talk to Shawn, feel free to 

reach out to us. You can go to our website, POMwealth.net, go to the Contact Us 

page and say, I would like to talk about Medicare, and they will get you right over 

to Shawn and make sure that you can get that scheduled. But thank you very much, 

Shawn. We hope everyone has a great week. We’ll talk to you again next Monday.